MONTHLY MEMBERS MEETING MONDAY MARCH 8th.

[olsen2330]

DON'T FORGET THE MONTHLY MEMBERS MEETING MONDAY MARCH 8th @ 7:30 pm.

FIND OUT WHAT'S HAPPING IN YOUR CLUB.
ALL MEMBERS ARE WELCOME - SEE YOU THERE.
STEVE PERKOWSKI
K.R.G.C.- VP.

[djw]

Mar 6, 2010 18:34:22 GMT -5 shooter22 said:

To Whom it may concern:

Why is there a bunch of stuff going on during the weekends? ...

Concerned Member

Dear Concerned Member,

Events are scheduled for weekends, because that's when people can get out. On the 27th, the ranges will reopen after the blackpowder shoot, probably around 3 p.m. That will leave at least three hours of shooting light.

Regarding the work projects: Like you, most members, and the Board, are only able to get work done at the club after their day job, and on the weekends. With few exceptions, all work done at the club is done by club members on a volunteer basis. Obviously, we must pay for materials. Regarding the roof project at the rifle range, I remember the President specifically addressing, at orientation, that the main roof there would be replaced this year. Also, I believe he mentioned that the goal was to have completely covered access from the entrance. Doing the project yesterday, when the weather allowed, and before most members will start using the range extensively, only made sense.

The road, as you mentioned, is a concern, and we're doing the best we can. If you know anything about the cost of that type of work, you'll understand that it is not a project that can be undertaken lightly.

If you need further information, or have questions, the monthly meeting is Monday night, and is open to all members.

Don

[jaceglarek]

Dear Concerned Member,

First off, if you're going to complain, be man (or woman) enough to use your real name...don't hide behind a screen name.

If you had a valid reason for needing to park closer (and it sounds like you did), you should have spoken up at orientation.

The improvements to the rifle range are being made so that, in the long run, the range will be more accessible...snow won't fall off the roof and block the sidewalks. The club events being open to the public is a nice thing to do, as it does generate interest in the club as well as providing an opportunity for non-members. However, those events would still go on even if they were closed to the public, because club members participate also.

We are a club, and we hold numerous different types of shooting events. Just because certain events don't appeal to you doesn't mean they shouldn't take place. And for obvious reasons, some of those events require closing one or more of the ranges.

I submit that the place to vent your grievances is at the board meetings, as was already suggested. This forum, in my opinion, is not the place...feel free to disagree. However, if you're that unhappy with your membership I'm sure the club will refund your money and give your spot to one of those 100 people that were turned away. I've heard from enough of them to know there are plenty of folks still interested. I'll happily process the paperwork.

John Ceglarek, Membership Secretary

[shooter22]

Mr. Ceglarek,

Like I stated before, I'm a new member and I am disappointed so far. I will remain anonymous as long as I get condescending, arrogant replies that don't address my questions. It is looking to me like there is a handful of people at this club who do what they want to do with the club's resources and want to run the club to tailor to their own desires. Like I stated before, the priorities should be: (1)making the ranges more accessible, and (2) not closing the range during peak shooting hours for special events. I don't think that my questions are out of line and I believe that others in this club probably share my same concerns. By the way, this forum is exactly the place to share my concerns. What are you afraid of, a majority of folks like me, who also believe that the range should not close down during peak shooting hours on the weekends for a special event. Or people like me who believe that we should save some money to make a real improvement to the access drive instead of having those dues burn a hole through your pocket, one week after collecting them, and pay for a roof over a sidewalk.

[jaceglarek]

Shooter22,

I'm not afraid of anything. But I refuse to have further discourse with you, when you won't identify yourself. That behavior is nothing short of childish. What follows is my last comment to you on this topic on this forum:

For the record, I've not heard other members, new or otherwise, making comments like you have. If others share your opinions, they're keeping it to themselves. And as I and others have stated previously, if you've got a gripe bring it to the board meeting. Nothing happens....no events are scheduled and no money is spent, without board discussion/approval. And if you don't like the way the club functions, then run for office. I believe it was stated at the orientation that anyone who had better ideas was welcome to step up.

By the way, I notice you didn't take me up on my offer....

John

[shooter22]

I don't think anyone enjoys traversing through a mud pit to shoot. Why are you avoiding my inquiry? By the way, I don't have to answer to you, you have to answer to me. When I was a member in the past I had no problem when I brought up questions. You are in an elected position. Is there a fund for a major road improvement? Judging by the responses I am getting there is probably is no such fund. How many years will go by before something is done about that road? How many dollars will be flushed into pointless projects during those years that could be saved to make a serious improvement to that road? You have to look beyond your tenure as an official there and think about the long term picture at the club. That's all this is. Just a challenge to think about the long term picture and not just asking "where can we spend the money right now?" By the way, running for office is not something one should do so she can make things the way she wants them. Being in a position of service is doing just that-serving. Not doing things your way. I would never run for an office so that I could do things my own way. It should follow a majority within the respective laws or constitution. I don't think a majority of people in the club would prefer to have covered sidewalks over having a access drive that is not accessible half the time. And I would venture to say that I believe most people would rather the range be open on prime times on the weekends rather than to be closed for the enjoyment of a few.

[jaceglarek]

Shooter22,

First of all, I am NOT in an elected position. I volunteered for this job, and serve at the discretion of the board...and the last time this position was up for grabs, there wasn't exactly a long line of applicants. So, I don't answer to you...lets make that abundantly clear. And I, as well as the others that keep this club running, give countless hours in "service". No one is trying to "have things their own way". I would venture that before one spouts off, one should spend more than one week observing how things are done...but that's just my opinion.

Second, what you may consider "pointless projects" others do not. And if the majority really feels as you do, that special events should not take place, then they need to speak out...as I stated previously, I've heard no one other than you voice these concerns.

Third, if you want to know about the club's budget and spending projects, come to the board meeting...the budget is discussed every month. I can't answer your question regarding funds for road improvement...that isn't my area of responsibility...as I said, I'm not an elected official and my "official" responsibilities revolve around memberships.

Now, as I've already done what I said I wouldn't do by indulging you, I'm finished.

John

[leadsquirter]

First off I'll address the road. You have NO idea of the time, volunteer time by the way that is spent trying to maintain that road and keeping it plowed in the winter. It is a mess right now because of the frost that is leaving the ground and it happens this time every year. It will be good again after the snow melts and the frost is out. It is just something we have to put up with.

The roof project on the rifle range is NOT a covered sidewalk. It is a shelter for shooters and their equipment and for the many events that the club holds. There was a space between the firing line cover and the new shelter built last year that snow and rain came into. Tom Fenwick the club president came up with the idea to tie the shelter into the range cover to prevent the snow from coming in a creating a very slippery spot. I guess Tom and some volunteers had some time this weekend to get it done. Like Don said, before the season gets busy.

I think this forum is a good place to discuss anything that concerns you, but like John said the meeting is the place where something can be done.

Remember this is a club and not a business. We all have different interests and we try to accommodate most everyone. If you come to the annual election of officers in September you will see maybe 25 members who show up to vote which is about 2% of the membership total. So what happens is the same people step up and serve another year because no one else will get involved. So when you say that you would never run for office to do things your way, maybe the people who serve every year because no one else will say to themselves "well if no one cares we'll just get it done".

One final rant by me. On the times that the range is open for general shooting. If you look at the shooting schedule in the last newsletter you'll see that there are very few events that close the entire club down. Mostly it is just one range and all those events put together probably wouldn't account for one or two percent the total hours that the club is open for general shooting. Dan Eddington

[vectorer]

Shooter...It's too bad that you failed to stay Saturday and help the volunteers complete the project. They would have appreciated and used whatever help you could have provided so that the range would have reopened so much quicker.

You are welcome to aire your complaints TONIGHT at the March business meeting when new business is considered. It begins at 7:30PM TONIGHT at the clubhouse. You are entitled to your opinions and may voice them to the board TONIGHT. Our board meeting is the 1 forum that counts. It is where policy is made, goals are set, and things are accomplished. You are entitled to introduced new business, vote on any issue considered before the board, and you also have the right to run for office in September.

I look forward to your active participation, tonight...Dave Swanson

[maistrac]

So, do you think the board is going to fill up the 8 missing spots
I'll be happy to have a second chance to be selected and happy to drive in the bad road, parking my car far away from the range. A little walk .... Isn't good for my health?
Thinking to enjoy that nice weather coming, walking around nails, hammers and I'll be happy to stop sometimes to pick up a tool and help...and probably I'll be able to shot at some targets.
Peace

[jaceglarek]

The eight open positions have been filled, pending the selected persons meeting with me to pay their dues and receive a brief orientation.

John

[olsen2330]

AND DON'T FORGET TONIGHT.
SEE YOU AT 7:30 pm.
STEVE PERKOWSKI

[Kim Everett]

Shooter 22
I am sorry that you, shall we say, feel "cheated" by the way the club has chosen to spend your membership dues. It sounds to me that maybe KRGC is not the appropriate fit for your range needs. Maybe if you had done some research into the club, you would have figured that out prior to getting a membership. I am sorry for the fact that an organization I love and support has made such an awful impression on you in just a week. With the hasty judgment you have rendered toward KRGC and it's members and the hostile and condescending approach you took on the blog has me wondering if any range could make you happy. I only hope you will not stay anonymous when it comes time to stand up, be heard and cast a vote at a business meeting. If you can't do that and you are so disappointed with the club then I feel that KRGC does not need you or your support.
Kim Everett 668-5401

[shooter22]

Kim, no thanks for your inaccurate summation of my previous posts. First of all, I am not making "hasty judgements" about members. The only thing hasty going on was how fast the money that came into the club was spent on a roof over a sidewalk. It really isn't a matter of feeling "cheated". It is disappointing to see priorities out of order. Safety and accessibility should be the top priorities. It was encouraging to see that it looks like the ranges are being made more accessible for people with disabilities (the ramp-like concrete sidewalk @ the rifle range). Now if someone could get from their vehicle to the shooting line in their wheelchair that would be the next improvement I would say. That would require a hardball road or at least hardball parking spots that directly access sidewalks to the shooting lines.

Also, it isn't difficult to understand the idea of saving money to improve the road. The entire road doesn't have to be done all at once either (to those of you who want to continue to remind me of the cost of a road). But those details would require that the board actually look at the road as a problem that needs to be addressed. I am just challenging someone out there to have a long-term vision for the club rather than the short-term vision which spawns petty little annual cash outlays instead of saving for a large cash outlay in a real, meaningful project.

Also, I will reveal myself in due time when I have a coalition of people who also believe in the things i believe in for the club and the necessary votes to show the club what true service is. If I stand up now my voice will be met with just as much obstinance in a board meeting as the replies on this message board.

It is abundantly clear to me that there is a group of people who spend much time at the club volunteering. I would be the first to thank anyone who spends their own time helping out at the club. But, unfortunately about 25 people who spend extra time at the club, and come to all the meetings and what not, think that their voices are louder than others because of their time spent at the club.

There have also been pleas for me to run for office. I would say that those of you in office who are making these pleas don't really understand what office is all about. It's about service. Does that mean you lay down and let people take pot shots at you? No! But it does mean that you act in accordance to the wishes of the majority of the members within applicable laws and constitutions. Office is not a place to get your own way and have things the way you think they should be. By telling me that I should run for office to change things you are telling me that you believe that office is there for those in office to make things the way that they want them to be. Shame on you!

[jaceglarek]

Shooter22,

You're sadly mistaken if you think that those who volunteer feel that their voices are louder because of the time they spend helping out. The simple fact is, their voices are louder BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONLY VOICES HEARD. Anyone who comes to the meetings has a vote, but as has been stated very few members exercise their right to attend and vote. Just like in the real world, if you don't vote than you've got no valid reason to gripe...and your absence was clearly noted at last night's meeting.

Shame on you, for implying that the board doesn't take into consideration the wishes and needs of the club members! Who do you think you are, anyway? You've been a member for all of one week and you know everything there is to know about the club and how it runs? I submit that the numbers speak for themselves. The club has retained over 90% of it's members from one year to the next EVERY SINGLE YEAR that I've done this job, and we have people like you standing in line to fill the open spots. To me, that speaks volumes...the current members are happy with their club. And as previously mentioned, very few members exercise their right come to the meetings and vote...that also implies that the rank and file members are happy with how their club is being managed and with what it has to offer. If there is a group of members that feel as you do, then they're definitely in the silent minority.

John